Carrots and Sticks

It's been five months since the divorce was done. I am still in Jomtien, she is off with psychopath (I consider him a psychopath because he told me he "should come beat me" because I didn't want him to meet and have sex with my then wife) who led to our divorce (thank you, btw) in India. She wanted me to loan her 20k baht for the trip!
This is email I sent her, or maybe didn't. Lots of anger in there, as could be expected....
"

"You have used your mind to study how people with real feelings behave so that you can mimic those feelings in order to manipulate and use others. But you are an actress, a “drama queen”. And like drama, it is not real.

  Friday (August 31st) was a prime example of that drama. I could cite many, many more, but this is the most recent. You acted very upset because I dared to ask if you were going to live up to your agreement to pay me 6,000 in September on the motorcycle as you said you would.

 You turned off your phone for several hours (the silent treatment to soften me up for the scene to come. One of your common weapons you used.)

 You hoped to exploit me again, so you searched your data base on me and chose drama. It always worked before, so why not use it again?

 You cried about how hard you work, how hard your life is, how all your money is gone as soon as you are paid, how you just want to travel and have a little enjoyment.

 I fell for it at the time. Made me seem I'm the one who was doing bad things to you.  I forgave you for not paying what you said you would. I told you my plan to return all that you had paid me back when you had finished paying for your motorbike. You won that round.

 Later I realized I was played again by you to get what you wanted. My guts told me “she is manipulating you, it is more exploitation. There is more to this story. She is hiding her real motives.”

 I ignored this sort of message in the past, but not any more. I have learned.

 You have been setting me up for several weeks now, and I wondered “setting me up for what?” I gathered some more information and then used my mind in appropriate manner to analyze what is going on. Was it only the motorcycle debt? Must be more than that.

  More setting me up on Saturday, more information. “Wish you were here”, “I can pick up that book for you and give it to you next Friday”. I noted there were behaviors that contradicted your sob story, such as:

 Staying at hotel for 1000 baht a night: “only 500 more than A-One Inn and felt I should treat myself. Stayed there several other times when I came to Bangkok and it is nice”.  Eh? This is like when you paid 4,000 of 5,000 owed on motorbike and then bought yourself a DVD player. More of “I’m so poor when it comes to paying my debts, but I can buy myself whatever and stay at hotel rather than with friends because other people (such as Em***) are only important when I can get something from them.” And you still wanted something from me, and assumed I was so stupid as not to notice your behavior. My guts pay attention to behaviors and I listen to them. Preliminary conclusion: she has more money than she says, plays poor to get me to provide more money and forgive debt.

What did you want more money for?

  A vacation in India, to Chennai, with co-worker was your opening (partial) story. I decided to play along with that, but felt there was much more to it. Of course you were only telling me the bare minimum, not the whole story of the trip and motives behind wanting me to loan you 20,000 baht. This was dishonesty by omission.

 I then said I would go with you. I should have done that back when you said you were going to Viet Nam with “friend”, who was actually your cyber (and a couple real days in BKK) love, Joe. That would have blown your whole cover, and we would have ended long ago.

 “I’m going to meet HIM”.  Something approaching truth comes out! “HIM” being Tony.

“I want the loan so I can be more independent”….. Try again, that one is an insult to my intelligence. "We are evolving to be like you and me, being intellectual" (bullshit. That is almost as bad as the first attempt). “I will still pay you back for the motorcycle” (with implication that you won’t if I don’t give you another loan. And owing me 20,000 more is another way you think you could dominate and control me: “be nice, go along with me or I won’t pay you back”.). And; “I will have some days saved and maybe we can go somewhere later in the year” (as if that would ever happen. Same as paying a whore before she comes over for sex. She will never show up). "I'm being honest and not sneaking around" (as if this is a good enough reason give you a loan, like being honest is such a reward, rather than normal expected behavior from a "friend")

 Being a narcissitic personality, you expect inferior people (everyone else) to jump at any chance to be around your superior everythingness. And to bow to your every wish, to be eternally grateful for the few crumbs you offer.

 Not from this guy anymore.

 I sent you this email, which you never answered:

“So why do you want to spend your money (or my money until you pay me back) meeting up with this a**hole, other than you want to show you can control him? Which he knows is what you want to do, and like the game of withholding love from me, he won't give you. He will get sex from you just like you got money and support from me. And he will never give you what you want. Just like me.

 Find some guy who is not a psychopath is my advice.

  And see if your medical program covers counseling. I am not kidding about that.”

 Tony is a psychopath, you are a sociopath. You two have much in common: you are both users, manipulators, lack empathy and feelings for anyone but selves.

  The needing money aspect doesn’t ring true: you have about 13,000 left to live on for the month after all your bills are paid. Where does the 13,000 go, leaving you with only 360 at end of month?(according to what you told me) I think you have another account or it is another lie.

 I don’t think you are stupid enough to take trips to Bangkok and stay at 1000 baht a night hotel and not get some of that back from who ever you are fu**ing there. Your income should be much more than just your salary. I don’t know (and don’t care) how many guys you have been screwing in Bang Saen, or perhaps even trips to Pattaya to stay with guys at Amari Orchid or Bella Villa Prima (or where ever you used to do them). But maybe you are that stupid…. And Tony, well, he seemed rich enough to pay for hotel for you when you got your UK visa. That was good investment on his part. Got him into bed with you later, and you thinking what a great guy he was for doing this (manipulation you were too stupid to realize). And now you won’t ask him to help pay for your trip? What you need is equal to 4 nights at that hotel. Oh, but he already has you in his net and doesn’t need to help you anymore. Or maybe you two are so evil that you came up with this loan bullshit so that you could have a good laugh at my expense. “Em*** is so stupid that he paid to send Suxxxx off to India so she could fu** the guy that resulted in end of marriage. What an idiot!”.  It is not beyond either of you two to do this.

 You know the tee shirts here: “No money, no honey”. Well, if he is fu**ing you then he should pay for your trip. That’s how it works here, although you did manage to get me to support you for years and rarely fu** you (or even kiss you!) while we were married.

 I am not going to pay or loan (give) you money. You have gone off the scale in outrageous requests with this one.

 I came up with a definition of evil after we split up:

“Evil is the unwarranted, persistent, conscious infliction of grievous harm on another sentient being”

This seems to fit what you did to me. Unwarranted: I didn’t deserve it. Persistent: behavior over extended time span of 5 years. Conscious: you knew just what you were doing. Infliction of grievous harm: you knew how damaging it was Sentient being: in this case, me.

 And you haven't quit trying to con me, to do evil to me. Sorry, I'm not playing anymore.

I got this in an email from you in mid July about how you wanted our friendship to be:

“Friend won't involved with each other FINANCIALLY and ROMANTICALLY!

If you and I separate these things out of our friendship, you and I can be OK for the friend thing.

I will pay you money of the scooter you required. You won't need to support me anything that required money on and I won't be getting anything when you die. Keep money issue away and talk as less as possible about money-- we will be OK.

I don't want you to know about my romantic relationship; whether it exists or disappear, I would like to keep it at the very very personal. If I get screw about it-- it's me who suffers. And this will apply for you the other way around.”

 Guess that got thrown out when you started experiencing paying your own expenses, maybe things weren’t quite as easy as you thought they would be. You found out I am different from the users you seem to mistakenly think are somehow better than me and want to hook up with:

 “Gee, Em*** actually cared about me! And showed it by supporting me all those years!”

 If it were the other way around, how would you have reacted?  I think we both know.

  I still plan on giving you back all the money you repay for your motorcycle after you pay it all back. You have paid back 19,000 so far. Here's a catch: if you skip a payment, you won't get any back. Is that a good incentive?"

She decided that she didn't need to pay back money in October, so indirectly I was financing the trip. She didn't answer phone or emails.

I thought about Kohlbergs levels of moral development. Clearly she is at level of 3 year old: no concept of right or wrong, good or bad. It is based on punishment.

Having me pissed off didn't matter to her. Same goes for showing respect, right and wrong. Punishment would be for her to lose face. She had no face to lose with me. I decided to contact her friend Jan in Bangkok, ask her to pass the message along. This is what I sent:

"

Hi Jan, it is Em***, ex-husband of Su******, man who paid for grad school at Chula, and supported her for 5 years in spite of her chasing other men. I bought her  a Honda motorcycle she needed to get to work with. She said she would pay me back, and has paid 19,000 so far. She has not paid me back 5000 baht this month as agreed. She seems to think that she should use that money for trip to meet Tony, the man she used to end our marriage.  I was no longer an asset and was to be dumped, in the most cold manner possible.

 I sent her some emails telling her that I will take her to court if she does not fulfill her agreement, but she has not responded. If you could tell her it is in her best interest to pay her bills, I would appreciate it. She would lose too much face by the truth coming out in court. It is not my job to support her financially on a trip to meet the psychopath in India. (she actually wanted me to loan her 20,000 for the trip!!!).It is my opinion that Su***** is an irresponsible manipulative user and incredibly evil towards me, the one she should respect.

 Paying back 15,000 after all the money and time I spent trying to bring out the good in her is nothing by comparison. I now feel there wasn’t any good in her to bring out.

BTW, did you spend a night with her at a hotel in BKK in late April when she went to get her UK visa? In room Tony paid for (so she said later, I didn't know at the time that she was cheating or planning on more cheating on me)

Thanks and sorry to bother you

It is for my own self respect that I want her to pay up, and it would be good for her growth if she showed some responsibility. She will never thank me or apologize for the horrible things she did, but that would be asking too much.

  She can do whatever she wants, as she always did. But I am not going to walk away from this.

I don’t want to call her at work, but I will if I have to.

She can have until Tuesday to deposit the money.

You can write to me"

Within half and hour I got sms message stating that 4k had been put in my account.

When carrots don't work....speak in a language they can understand. With a big stick.

These blogs are my opinion and views. If you can find errors or factual mistakes please leave a comment and I will correct those specific items if they are found to be in error. These blogs are intended as public service announcements to serve as a warning to anyone who is considering a relationship with the subject(s). I am doing this to educate and inform the unaware. I hope it may prevent any such misfortune from being inflicted on an unsuspecting person or persons.

  Life is all about choices we make, as you already no doubt have heard and maybe even know. I have decided that I don't need to be around those that aggravate me.   Just that simple. In concept anyway....
 Arthur and I have played together for years, but it was never a partnership. My choices in songs were ignored, he didn't listen to just about anything I said. I put up with this, rationalizing "It's just him" or "He can't play the kind of songs I like" or "We're raising money for the boy's home and that is more important". All rationalizations and excuses. Fact was it was a factor in my feeling less than worthwhile.
We had a blow up regarding getting a 12 volt battery with converter so could use regular plug in amps. His attitude (according to me) was that the one that my friends spent a week hustling around Pattaya getting the parts and assembling had to be less than whatever he could put together. (They spent about $280 putting it together, and since they have scattered to the four winds, were willing to let it go for half of that. Barely used.)
  I said to him "look at it, try it , buy it or don't. Doesn't matter to me." he went on some sort of warpath because I dared to question his wisdom of wanting to search net for it, re-invent the wheel, etc. Blamed in on breakup with Sumalai, my hatred of whatever, sunspots.... I did some research also.
Seems he fits the DSM-IV criteria for Narcissistic  Personality Disorder: he is always right, should be worshipped, others are inferior to his greatness, etc.
It is true in a sense that the breakup with Su**** had something to do with this. She has many similar elements to NPD that he has. Hers is tempered somewhat by the fact she has low self esteem and some self hatred. Due in part I am sure to being molested by her uncle (whom I think she identifies me with by age if nothing else and some of her evil behaviors towards me are sort of getting him by proxy). So with her it was so large that his little crap seemed piddling by comparison. But with her gone, his came up on the screen. And I have dealt with them as best I could. Some responses, then just silence from me. He wouldn't listen anyway!
  Su*****is much smarter and craftier than he could ever hope to be. I'll go into some of the latest circus regarding her in my next blog.

The ex sent me this. Been a couple weeks since I moved out and almost a week since she moved out. None of what I post will be in all that much order. Cut and paste. Slice and dice. Duck and cover.

"Hi,

I hope you are doing ok. 

I am getting used to with my new place. It is a bit hot as no win can get through. It is alright. The coolest thing is i could catch motorbike taxi to work in the morning without hassling with parking space at the market. In started to bring running shoes with me and took a walk when I get off after work. I have been given a lot of support from Cobra friends made me feel that I am not alone after all.

I reckon you play music a lot. You may have finished unpacking. Probably going to USA soon. I hope you manage to sort the ticket out OK.

I read a lot recently. Already told you once but tell you again anyway.. The power of now -- Eckhart Tolle

Too much future, not enough now = unease, anxiety, tension, stress, worry

Too much past, not enough now = guilt, regret, resentment, grievance, sadness, bitterness, nonforgiveness 

I hope you are OK. 

Take care."

I dashed this off, it is not done, nor will it probably ever be done. I did not send it to her. Doubt if I will, or even if she would care to read it. What the hell....

" Good you are walking, and good you have friends.

 Just want to toss out some ideas regarding "the power of now" and how it applies to Thai culture in general. Not all Thais, of course, but as in general. And Western culture.

  A bit more focus is in order for Westerners regarding "now". The book "Be here now" was very popular in the 60's and 70's. The gist was we spend too much time planning and looking back that we lose the present. That was valid. Like the saying goes "Life is what happens while you are busy making plans".

  However, one of the more common complaints regarding Thais is that cannot see more than 5 minutes into the future or the past. They are too much into the "now". Another famous saying in the West is "Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."

  This discounting and avoidance of taking a critical look at the past can lead to problems in the present. Thai education and culture shun critical thinking, analyzing, what one could call "the long view". Since anything beyond 5 minutes ago doesn't enter into thought processes, it leads farangs (western foreigners)  into viewing Thais like 4 year old children. Same goes for consideration of the future and possible results later on from action taken based purely on "the now". When this is combined with a culture that is based on status, appearance, show, impressing others more than thinking for ones self, and the shallow nature that comes from these values, decisions and actions leave Westerners shaking their heads in disbelief. Here are some examples of what I mean, based on our experience.

 Your friend Tony rents you an expensive room at a hotel for a night in Bangkok, even though you have never met him in person. (Tony is the guy that set divorce in motion, her talking with him and saying going to see him_EM)

Jan (Old school friend of hers, lives in BKK, said she spent night with Jan, omitted where. Typical) remarks about what a great guy he must be, which you probably agree with, and you get some status with her because he is interested in you. Neither of you look beyond the "wow that is so cool level" to figure out just what this is all about. You don't ask questions or think critically.

A Westerner, such as me, would ask lots of questions: What is his intent? What is his goal? What is his payoff for this gesture? Is this normal practice or a manipulation?

We pose some possible answers and theories regarding these questions, based on the limited information we have.

He taught English in Thailand so is probably aware of the lack of critical thinking and the relative ease to impress the gullible Thais. His intent is to impress you.... so far so good that is normal. He also thinks (rightly) that you will think is a very good guy. Error. He is a guy that can pay for that room. Why? To put you in his debt. He knows that this will give him leverage over you that he would not have otherwise. Leverage to do what? What do most guys want? To screw a lot of women, and that means you. Same as John at the real estate office (married guy she had affair with few years ago. Got a ton of money from him!). He does not have to say "I paid for the room so you owe me some good sex". That is understood by rules of kreng jai (special respect, very important). It is what you have that he wants.

 So we would say that based on his actions he is not the good guy he pretends to be, but is manipulative. This would almost never happen in the west because the women are wise to that sort of game playing and would tell him to go the hell away. Unless she were a whore, which is how he really views Thai women. It is like a pre-paid fu**.

 Being very surface and impression based, lacking the ability to see "the big picture", and having the attention span of 5 minutes, actions such as I have undertaken for the sole benefit of Su**** are not even worth noting or appreciating. My taking care of you in all areas for a good portion of 5 years count for nothing. My sending you to the best and most expensive university in Thailand to get your masters degree does not even earn a thank you or an invitation to your graduation. Why? Because what you got is inside you and you can't show it off like a villa or a car or gold. If you can't see it and impress people with it, then it must be of no value. And although you would not have the job you do today if it weren't for me and my sacrifice, you are incapable of making the seemingly easy connection of the two. The lack of appreciation and actual open resentment for doing what I did leaves Westerners at a loss for understanding.

  If I had been "in the now" during your earlier chasing of men and the lies/manipulation that went with that, you would have been left far behind, with me and my support out of your life. My ability to see the long term goal, to see the future you could have IF you finished grad school kept me with you, much to my personal damage. I contend you knew that I had that future goal for you and used it to your advantage, besides once more giving more excuses to dislike me for being "weak" by not leaving. Not examining your behaviors beyond saying "I'm a bitch" and correcting those behaviors was beyond you. That would involve long term effort and commitment, self monitoring, and not just acting on whatever impulse struck you. 4 year olds can't do that.

It's 5 years since I last wrote a post. 5 unbelievable years. Guess that's what happens when you are with an unbelievable woman. Literally unbelievable. As in not to be believed.
Yes, it was with Su****, the one in the posts about going to Bali. To cut to the chase, we have been divorced since May 21st. Should make that my independence day.
Should I tell the long and twisted tale of  deception, manipulation, lies, cheating and about every other behavior that has been classified as evil and were inflicted on me. Is it too soon, am I too close to it? Will the writing speed or hinder my recovery from "Tsumaliar"? Think about this a tad. Time to go for a walk.

embsmall

embsmall
Originally uploaded by nyoman23

I go to the beach here in Jomtien about every day to play the guitar in the morning. Good place to watch life in all it's forms pass by.

Introduction to Jomtien et al

I hope to get this thing going. I live in Thailand, in the beach resort of Jomtien, near Pattaya

It is the craziest place on earth, as far as I know.... This blog may help avoid some of the pitfalls to the newbie to Thai life. Not all of them.

I am returning to Thailand very soon, but wantedto set this up here. I send out weekly emails, andthought I would include a sample below:

It took 13 hours to get back to Jomtien from Nong Khai, the border town near Vientienne. The bus I started with seemed to stop at every burg big enough to have a station. I decided to switch buses at Korat, since I found out they had buses with Pattaya as the destination, saving a run into Bangkok and back out again. I thought it would save some time, but I think it worked out to 6 of 1, 1/2 doz of the other. But the route was more on secondary roads and more "scenic". Bus stopped somewhere in central Pattaya and hired a motorcycle taxi to take me home, which made me a tad anxious due to having back pack on and feeling a sudden movement could give me a back flip. Got home at 8 and ordered pizza. Billy was cranking up AC DC and pulled down his gate when I rolled up (?). I kicked the gate just to let him know I was back. He and Pom took off for Buri Ram (her village) the next morning, so it is relatively peaceful, except of course for the usual noise from across the parking lot of laughter and invitations from the bar girls to whomever gets in range. Sumalee still in Surin, talked with her on the phone. Seems the guys supposedly fixing the water problem are not too "geng" (clever). There is a trench running from back to front of the building, work has stopped, ain't it wonderful. She told me not to talk to the women at Eve Massage because the boss is angry with me and my reasoning about just when the trench could be dug (you may recall I didn't think we would have them stop everytime a customer showed up at eve). Whatever. Saw Alex walking by when I came back. He said "Welcome back to hell". Made me laugh. It's not hell, but it ain't heaven either. Pattaya is at least not too boring. Unlike any other neighborhood I've lived in. The junk I picked up lasted the trip. In Laos I bought some dvds and cds. Chinese pressings, good quality. $2 for either. Got Pulp Fiction, Cold Mountain, Fahrenheit 9/11, and the classic superb black comedy Little Murders. The cds were double ones. Got Claptons 461 Ocean Boulevarde, Let It Be Naked (Beatles with Phil Spector overdone production removed) and the Chinese 12 Girl Band, which is pretty popular over here in Asia. Play all trad insturments with a sort of updated beat. Oh yeah, and in Bangkok I got "The Untouchables: Arsenals unbeaten championship season" vcd. Which is nice, since didn't have cable last year so missed alot of games. And this years red jersey, which is quite attractive and has Thierry Henrys name and number on it. Good quality. Henry is top scorer in the league again this year, has 20 goals so far. Last night in an FA cup match, he did the little trick I remember from a few years ago. Intercepted the ball from the goalkeeper when he let go of it for a kick. Ran around him and knocked it in. Disallowed, but just the skill level to pull that off is amazing. The Fred Astaire of football. I was thinking of the different purposes that people work at, such as myself compared with bar girls. I am "set" money wise if I don't get too stupid, and the thing that eats at me is that perhaps I am too comfortable, in a routine, missing out on the sharper edges of life. yeah, so put your hand in a meat grinder, fool! Now the bar girls, consider their life. They are really tossed about by the winds of chance. No health plan/job protection for them. They are always "on": if they don't score, they don't eat. 95% don't make all that much, what with having to support mom and pop and maybe some kids, whom they rarely get to see (no paid vacations). I could do an inventory of Dang's room on one sheet of paper. A cheap wardrobe, a bed, a fan, a $50 boom box, a plastic chair, a wire shelf, her clothes, and that's it. At least they don't have some pimp beating them up and taking their money. They are independent contractors of a sort. Although if someone wishes to "buy their contract" it can cost $250 or so to get them "released" from their job. I think this is outrageous. The bars don't really pay them anything (maybe $50 a month), and the bar gets most of the "bar fine" (which they get even if the woman contracts out for a few weeks or a month), so it is not like this is a charity operation or anything, so why do they get to sell these women? They get it because they can. There are pay toilets in Thailand, and the usual price is 3 baht, about $.08. I wonder about the level of job satisfaction that can be had in being the person collecting that money. What sort of job enrichment program could be implemented for that? So maybe the job of bar girl is at least more interesting, diverse (and we all love to "celebrate diversity" don't we?), and creative than collecting that 3 baht a shot job. There is a large vinyl poster hanging on a wall on the main road into the market area of central Pattaya. It's main message is "do the crime here, serve time in your home country". This is in regards to sexual predators of the young. It is put out by US customs. Now I am no defender of that sort of short eyes pervos, but my mind ruminated on this whilst walking by the latest slut fashion stores. To wit: seems to me that unless there is some international court that the US has signed onto (highly doubtful), how can you be charged for a crime that didn't occur within the jurisdiction of the court? Isn't that like busting someone in New York for smoking ganja in Mexico? Are they tried here or in the home country? And if were a pervo like that, I think I would much rather serve time in a US jail than some Thai shithole prison. Oh, one of the Thai slangs for prison is "monkey house", the English words, not translated. BBC had an interesting forum on last night from the economic conference in Davos. Speakers included Mc Cain and Bidden, PM Majors from Australia, Pres of Latvia (forget her name), Iranians, China, Indonesians, Arab league dude, academics, etc. General consensus was that America needs to work on it's "soft power", that we are losing in the battle for hearts and minds. I doubt if any of this was broadcast or even mentioned in the US. They also have a fairly interesting weekly show called "Dateline London" with a group of jounalists of varying nationalities discussing the world news. One made the observation (regarding current political climate in UK and US) that "Those in power are weak and fearful, and the way they maintain their power is by keeping the people more weak and fearful." Spot on, ay what? I am almost ready to spring for a computer. Any advice re AMD vs Intel? I think I will spring for a better sound card, so I can make my uber productions of noise. EnufEM